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	<title>Comments on: Pigeonholing the Reader with Genre</title>
	<link>http://bethestory.com/2005/12/24/pigeonholing-the-reader</link>
	<description>the blog about writing stories and being a better writer</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 23:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: TimK</title>
		<link>http://bethestory.com/2005/12/24/pigeonholing-the-reader#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>TimK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 17:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bethestory.com/2005/12/24/pigeonholing-the-reader#comment-17</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Jenna. Good luck on your novel and other writing.

-TimK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Jenna. Good luck on your novel and other writing.</p>
<p>-TimK</p>
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		<title>By: Jenna Glatzer</title>
		<link>http://bethestory.com/2005/12/24/pigeonholing-the-reader#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenna Glatzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2005 08:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bethestory.com/2005/12/24/pigeonholing-the-reader#comment-16</guid>
		<description>Interesting discussion-- good points by both! I'm bookmarking this site in case I ever get brave enough to try writing a novel again (I'm a nonfiction gal). Thanks for successfully distracting me from work for a while. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting discussion&#8211; good points by both! I&#8217;m bookmarking this site in case I ever get brave enough to try writing a novel again (I&#8217;m a nonfiction gal). Thanks for successfully distracting me from work for a while. <img src='http://bethestory.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: TimK</title>
		<link>http://bethestory.com/2005/12/24/pigeonholing-the-reader#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>TimK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bethestory.com/2005/12/24/pigeonholing-the-reader#comment-14</guid>
		<description>Hi, Kiki. Thanks for writing. I do agree that we're not at opposing ends of opinion. Rather, we're expressing the same opinion, but from different perspectives. It also makes sense to me that if you want to write a story in a given genre, and appeal to readers who enjoy that genre, that as a writer one should understand and obey the rules of that genre. But here the meanings we convey become very sensitive to the words we choose.

A similar thing happens in linguistics, speaking of words and their meanings. Linguistics is the study of language. When a linguist talks about the meanings of words, he'd say, for example, "In this sentence, the word &lt;em&gt;board&lt;/em&gt; &lt;strong&gt;refers to&lt;/strong&gt; a wooden plank, a two-by-four." He doesn't talk about what a word "means," as a layman might, because each word has ranges of meaning, and when these ranges of meaning come together in a complete sentence, only then can they refer to specific objects or concepts. But laymen commonly confuse meaning and referent, as though the two-by-four were the "meaning" of the word &lt;em&gt;board&lt;/em&gt;. It isn't. If you have doubt, look up &lt;a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=board" rel="nofollow"&gt;&lt;em&gt;board&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt; in the dictionary. That particular sequence of letters has dozens of meanings, each of which can refer to a whole host of things.

The same thing can happen when we talk about genres, or any marketing category, if we're not careful. A genre, like a word, has a range of meaning, in which a range of stories (referents) can fit. And as we can confuse the word's meaning and its referent, thinking they're the same thing, we can confuse a genre and the stories that fall in it. In reality, a word only takes on a concrete referent within the context of a sentence, and a genre only includes a story within the context of a sale.

This may seem like a picky distinction for me to make. But failing to make this distinction is one of the things that holds back industries, or at least the establishment players in an industry. Take podcasting. The newcomers don't know much about broadcasting, but we have plenty of time to learn, because the establishment isn't going to move on us for some time. They're too caught in the old way of marketing the goods.

One short story to demonstrate what I'm getting at, courtesy of Peter Drucker, from his book &lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0887306187/bethestory-20" rel="nofollow"&gt;&lt;em&gt;Innovation and Entrepreneurship&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;. In the '50's, Macy's, the number-one New York department store, faced a problem. They were selling too many appliances. So what's wrong with that? Appliances had a larger profit margin, fewer returns, and less pilferage, compared to clothing sales. But you see, in that kind of store, it was considered normal to have appliance sales account for only about 30%. Macy's saw double that, Customers used to come in to buy clothes, buying applicances only as an afterthought; now the opposite was occuring. And the only thing Macy's could think to do was to sabotage appliance sales, to push them back down to the normal levels.

Bloomingdale's, on the other hand, at that time number four, saw that the market had changed. They took advantage of this change and skyrocketed to the number-two spot, unseating all the contenders inbetween.

Peter Drucker writes, "The Macy's story will be called extreme. But the only uncommon aspect about it is that the chairman was aware of what he was doing. Though not conscious of their folly, far too many managements act the way Macy's did. It is never easy for a management to accept the unexpected success."

-TimK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Kiki. Thanks for writing. I do agree that we&#8217;re not at opposing ends of opinion. Rather, we&#8217;re expressing the same opinion, but from different perspectives. It also makes sense to me that if you want to write a story in a given genre, and appeal to readers who enjoy that genre, that as a writer one should understand and obey the rules of that genre. But here the meanings we convey become very sensitive to the words we choose.</p>
<p>A similar thing happens in linguistics, speaking of words and their meanings. Linguistics is the study of language. When a linguist talks about the meanings of words, he&#8217;d say, for example, &#8220;In this sentence, the word <em>board</em> <strong>refers to</strong> a wooden plank, a two-by-four.&#8221; He doesn&#8217;t talk about what a word &#8220;means,&#8221; as a layman might, because each word has ranges of meaning, and when these ranges of meaning come together in a complete sentence, only then can they refer to specific objects or concepts. But laymen commonly confuse meaning and referent, as though the two-by-four were the &#8220;meaning&#8221; of the word <em>board</em>. It isn&#8217;t. If you have doubt, look up <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=board" rel="nofollow"><em>board</em></a> in the dictionary. That particular sequence of letters has dozens of meanings, each of which can refer to a whole host of things.</p>
<p>The same thing can happen when we talk about genres, or any marketing category, if we&#8217;re not careful. A genre, like a word, has a range of meaning, in which a range of stories (referents) can fit. And as we can confuse the word&#8217;s meaning and its referent, thinking they&#8217;re the same thing, we can confuse a genre and the stories that fall in it. In reality, a word only takes on a concrete referent within the context of a sentence, and a genre only includes a story within the context of a sale.</p>
<p>This may seem like a picky distinction for me to make. But failing to make this distinction is one of the things that holds back industries, or at least the establishment players in an industry. Take podcasting. The newcomers don&#8217;t know much about broadcasting, but we have plenty of time to learn, because the establishment isn&#8217;t going to move on us for some time. They&#8217;re too caught in the old way of marketing the goods.</p>
<p>One short story to demonstrate what I&#8217;m getting at, courtesy of Peter Drucker, from his book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0887306187/bethestory-20" rel="nofollow"><em>Innovation and Entrepreneurship</em></a>. In the &#8217;50&#8217;s, Macy&#8217;s, the number-one New York department store, faced a problem. They were selling too many appliances. So what&#8217;s wrong with that? Appliances had a larger profit margin, fewer returns, and less pilferage, compared to clothing sales. But you see, in that kind of store, it was considered normal to have appliance sales account for only about 30%. Macy&#8217;s saw double that, Customers used to come in to buy clothes, buying applicances only as an afterthought; now the opposite was occuring. And the only thing Macy&#8217;s could think to do was to sabotage appliance sales, to push them back down to the normal levels.</p>
<p>Bloomingdale&#8217;s, on the other hand, at that time number four, saw that the market had changed. They took advantage of this change and skyrocketed to the number-two spot, unseating all the contenders inbetween.</p>
<p>Peter Drucker writes, &#8220;The Macy&#8217;s story will be called extreme. But the only uncommon aspect about it is that the chairman was aware of what he was doing. Though not conscious of their folly, far too many managements act the way Macy&#8217;s did. It is never easy for a management to accept the unexpected success.&#8221;</p>
<p>-TimK</p>
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		<title>By: Kiki</title>
		<link>http://bethestory.com/2005/12/24/pigeonholing-the-reader#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Kiki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Dec 2005 07:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bethestory.com/2005/12/24/pigeonholing-the-reader#comment-13</guid>
		<description>You raise some excellent points here. I agree with you that often, it comes down to marketing as to which side of the cross-genre will be the main focus/audience. But you can still decide how you want to sell your books to the publishers (by choosing who to send your story to, for example, or how to word your proposal). So the choice is not just up to the marketing department at the major houses.

There are some authors that can successfully transcend genres and defy easy classification. but those are few and far between.
Seeing genre classifications as a springboard into whatever strikes your fancy is a brilliant start. i've given up on asking for my personal perfect combos, so instead, I look for books I know will have at least one aspect I enjoy. If they do more than one, and do it well, all the better.

In summary, i don't think we're at too opposing ends of opinion.

A final note: space opera is a genre in its own right nowadays, as a sub-genre of sci-fi.
Sub-genres are insanely confusing (and shifting)... But at least you know what you're getting. ^_-

Thanks for plugging my show!

~Kiki</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You raise some excellent points here. I agree with you that often, it comes down to marketing as to which side of the cross-genre will be the main focus/audience. But you can still decide how you want to sell your books to the publishers (by choosing who to send your story to, for example, or how to word your proposal). So the choice is not just up to the marketing department at the major houses.</p>
<p>There are some authors that can successfully transcend genres and defy easy classification. but those are few and far between.<br />
Seeing genre classifications as a springboard into whatever strikes your fancy is a brilliant start. i&#8217;ve given up on asking for my personal perfect combos, so instead, I look for books I know will have at least one aspect I enjoy. If they do more than one, and do it well, all the better.</p>
<p>In summary, i don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re at too opposing ends of opinion.</p>
<p>A final note: space opera is a genre in its own right nowadays, as a sub-genre of sci-fi.<br />
Sub-genres are insanely confusing (and shifting)&#8230; But at least you know what you&#8217;re getting. ^_-</p>
<p>Thanks for plugging my show!</p>
<p>~Kiki</p>
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